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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Is it ever OK to tell the BS (or provide affair details to BS)?
« Last post by Hidden on February 17, 2018, 12:09:37 AM »
I happened to notice an article, ("Should The ‘Other Woman’ Ever Tell A Wife That Her Husband Is Cheating?") on this very topic earlier today ...
Is Huffington Post relying on ClubTOW for article ideas?   :slaplaugh:

I think the bottom line is that there is no one answer to this question. 
(But I'd still not disclose details to the BS.)
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on December 03, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
Quote
And lumping affairs into that of being "the fog" or just fantasy is attempting to make them trivial.  Less real.  And the people who are involved are trying to escape reality, live in a dream world.

It seems that there are those who would rather justify it that way than face the fact that there is always a reason that an affair begins.  Something is missing from the relationship that is being sought else where.
The notion of an affair partner being in "the fog" seems to be prevalent in BS forums; I would agree that it's a mechanism attempting to make the affair a trivial, not "real" notion.  I suppose that it may be easier for a BS to believe in "the fog" than the possibility their spouse has fallen in love with someone else. 

I've sometimes believed "the fog" is also utilized as a way to shame the wandering spouse back into compliance with marriage vows. 

I can also see where it could be a case of something missing from the primary relationship (marriage) being sought elsewhere, especially in a situation where the married couple hasn't actually grown together over the years (or have actually grown further apart).  Without working together/communicating, it's easy to see where one, or possibly both, would look elsewhere. 


Quote
I wonder if people write and read these articles because the idea that people can fall in and out of love within a marriage is just too frightening to accept?  Looking back to the time before me and my husband split up... it's hard to write this, but the truth is he fell out of love with me because of life circumstances that neither of us had the experience to handle.  He didn't want to, but he did - and he fell in love with someone else.  It was horrible, but it happens.  And then I fell out of love with him too, that's why I could fall in love with L.
:bighug: 
You may be onto something here ... I feel many of us are capable of only being able to handle one love relationship at a time; that to be able to fully engage in an affair, one may need to either 'fall out of love' with their primary relationship, or nudge the love/emotions to the side in order to accommodate love/emotions for the affair partner.  (From my own perspective, I have dated several guys at a time in the past, but when becoming "serious" about one person there are no other guys simply because my heart only has room for the one love interest.   Others mileage may vary.)
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hope on December 02, 2017, 07:40:54 PM »
You stated it perfectly, and the truth is I didn't want to change mine. I wasn't happy in it, and I couldn't imagine life with all it came with out of it. Icky situation, and icky getting out. Super painful. I am so glad it's over. Never again.  :D
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on December 02, 2017, 07:05:49 PM »
(((((hugs))))) Hope.

I don't think you can know that it was about her Vs you.  If that were always the case, my H would've left when he went goigly-eyed for Madam,, cos sure as hell he didn't want me at that time!  :slaplaugh: But you/we do know that they didn't want to change their lives.  And you're right - beyond that, it doesn't really matter why. That's for them to figure out. We just keep doing us.
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hope on December 02, 2017, 05:18:56 PM »
The reality is, if he wanted to be with me, he would be. He did want her more than me. It is irrelevant why.

The fantasy was my believing anything different. That happened in the affair and was the fantasy.
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hope on December 02, 2017, 04:03:34 PM »
I agree with almost everything that OYF said. I also believe that more of the fantasy or rationalizing and denial occurs in the affair. You have to. That was also the central focus of my therapy.

I'd also rather chew glass, what an absolute nightmare that was. It was like getting nothing yet trying to convince myself it was enough for years.

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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on December 02, 2017, 09:02:54 AM »
Articles like this are why hard scientists laugh at psychologists  :slaplaugh: :slaplaugh: :slaplaugh:

"Three main chemicals are released during this initial stage of affair—dopamine, which is also activated by cocaine and nicotine; norepinephrine, otherwise known as adrenaline; and serotonin, one of love's most important chemicals."

These are exactly the same chemicals that are "released" when falling in love. Or when eating something sweet. Or going skydiving.  You can draw no conclusions whatsoever about how "real" or otherwise the feelings in an affair are from this information.

(Also, cocaine does not RELEASE dopamine, it prevents it being reabsorbed and deactivated. Subtle but important distinction. Not sure about nicotine, but anyway....)

Much as I would chew broken glass before getting involved with a married man again, this I know - at some point in that f'ked up situation, L loved me.  Maybe not much, maybe not for long and maybe not in a healthy way, but he did love me. And I loved him.  The situation was foul, but the feelings weren't.  Pretending otherwise would just be another form of justification and rationalising - and I did enough of that when I was IN the damn affair, so I'm sure as hell not going to do it now I'm free!  :soapbox:

Echoing [Hidden] above, I wonder if people write and read these articles because the idea that people can fall in and out of love within a marriage is just too frightening to accept?  Looking back to the time before me and my husband split up... it's hard to write this, but the truth is he fell out of love with me because of life circumstances that neither of us had the experience to handle.  He didn't want to, but he did - and he fell in love with someone else.  It was horrible, but it happens.  And then I fell out of love with him too, that's why I could fall in love with L.

Now, I could choose to brush that reality aside and euphemistically call it "a bad patch" and that my feelings for L were just a product of my vulnerability, but that isn't going to be very helpful to us in the long term.  I feel it's healthier to acknowledge that H and I fell out of love, broke up, stayed (mostly) friends and then through that friendship and (occasionally misguided) loyalty to each other, fell back in love again.  Terrifying, messy, and largely uncontrollable.  But reality as I see it, nonetheless.
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on November 28, 2017, 10:54:04 AM »
While I have witnessed and been told about many affairs being just a physical thing, I have seen far more that typically started as more of an emotional affair well before it ever went physical.

And lumping affairs into that of being "the fog" or just fantasy is attempting to make them trivial.  Less real.  And the people who are involved are trying to escape reality, live in a dream world.

It seems that there are those who would rather justify it that way than face the fact that there is always a reason that an affair begins.  Something is missing from the relationship that is being sought else where.

I don't attempt to justify my affair.  I would have rather we found each other another way.  But I know why I ended up in it and what I was looking for and needing. 
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Re: Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on November 26, 2017, 01:32:50 PM »
While I do not believe every affair has the same characteristics (and there are so many "types of affairs" I don't know that they're worth categorizing even), I guess I can understand how for some affair partners it can start as a person providing validation, and in essence is a mere fantasy ...

I just don't imagine a fantasy can be sustained for very long, and quite agree with the commenter who'd responded as affairs being in "the fog" as some morally acceptable spin. 
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The Cafe at ClubTOW / Affairs: fantasy vs. reality
« Last post by Hidden on November 26, 2017, 01:31:10 PM »
ClubTOW members: Please be aware this post is in the Public Section of the forum for guests to read.  (TMI rules apply as usual.)


I'd been thinking about the reasons WHY any of us have found ourselves involved in (past or present) affairs when I'd stumbled across the following in in this blog article from Psychology Today: 
Quote
When affairs begin, a person typically doesn't fall in love with the other person, at least not initially. They're actually "falling in love" with the fantasy (in their very own mind) about the other person. In other words, they're falling for the image of the other person they've created in their own mind. The affair partner is simply a construct, a made-up image -- someone, they imagine, who will meet their every need.

Affairs, at their core, are about longing and a deep need for external validation. Who doesn't like someone telling them they look or smell good, or confirming that another person is attracted to them? Who doesn't like to feel that someone values them? Again, many individuals that have an affair are not "falling in love" with the other person; they are "falling in love" with this new, wonderful image of themselves -- an image that's receiving praise and external validation.

I'll confess that I'm 'cherry picking' at this article a bit in that there was a bit of conversation in the Comments section I found myself drawn to (and something I've also questioned):
  • Is there a difference between falling in love with the 'fantasy' of that person versus actually being in love with them?
  • What is the difference between what the author describes and falling in love with anyone?

And this response (from another commenter):  "This is a common way of writing about marriage and affairs. You even see it on the Dr. Phil show, and by various writers of marriage self-help books. They describe the love that led to a marriage with positive adjectives, and the love in an affair as "being in the fog", or "unrealistic", as if the initial love the married couple felt for each other was any less of a "fog of unreality". It's just a way of spinning a morally acceptable difference between two things which are psychologically and chemically the same."


Thoughts?






Edit: Correcting special characters from quote.
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